Thoughts on the Munich thing

mrcakey · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 119

I posted this to the 606 board. (Reckon I'm on the edge of giving up on
this NG - wrote to UK usenet coordinator about starting a moderated version
and got no reply.)

______________

I'm always embarrassed by my fellow City fans' attitude to this. People trot
out that Frank Swift (a City player) was also killed in the crash as if that
alone should engender respect, but that shouldn't enter into the thinking -
this was a human tragedy.

Another benefit of having a minute's clap rather than a minute's silence is
that it gives those decent City fans like myself the opportunity to pay
their respects. No one can hear your silence if there are 2,000 idiots
making aeroplane noises around you - but they can see you clapping.

______________

That was before United made their choice. Now I'm more angry than anything.

They know exactly what's going to happen.

They could have rearranged the fixture and held the silence on a different
day.

They could have opted for the admittedly second rate option of having a
minute's clap.

But no. They're going to attempt to instigate a silence on the same day
they're playing City. A team whose fans use the word "Munich" with such
casual disregard for its implied meaning. Which element of fans has
previously made aeroplane signs in every previous derby match for the past
God knows how many years.

What are the chances of getting through it? Nil. United know that. What
are the consequences? United sainted, City damned. It's politics.
Pathetic politics. As others have pointed out, this is not a City disease -
United have an element that will gladly disrupt other people's remembrance,
even something as recent as Hillsborough. But City will take all the flak
and have their reputation damaged, not least internationally - and we know
what that means in these times. Very clever. Very wrong.

+mrcakey

Archived from group: uk>sport>football>clubs>man-city

Henry Crun · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 599

"mrcakey" wrote in message $83o$1@aioe.org...
>I posted this to the 606 board. (Reckon I'm on the edge of giving up on
>this NG - wrote to UK usenet coordinator about starting a moderated version
>and got no reply.)
>
> ______________
>
> I'm always embarrassed by my fellow City fans' attitude to this. People
> trot out that Frank Swift (a City player) was also killed in the crash as
> if that alone should engender respect, but that shouldn't enter into the
> thinking - this was a human tragedy.
>
> Another benefit of having a minute's clap rather than a minute's silence
> is that it gives those decent City fans like myself the opportunity to pay
> their respects. No one can hear your silence if there are 2,000 idiots
> making aeroplane noises around you - but they can see you clapping.
>
> ______________
>
> That was before United made their choice. Now I'm more angry than
> anything.
>
> They know exactly what's going to happen.
>
> They could have rearranged the fixture and held the silence on a different
> day.
>
> They could have opted for the admittedly second rate option of having a
> minute's clap.
>
> But no. They're going to attempt to instigate a silence on the same day
> they're playing City. A team whose fans use the word "Munich" with such
> casual disregard for its implied meaning. Which element of fans has
> previously made aeroplane signs in every previous derby match for the past
> God knows how many years.
>
> What are the chances of getting through it? Nil. United know that. What
> are the consequences? United sainted, City damned. It's politics.
> Pathetic politics. As others have pointed out, this is not a City
> disease - United have an element that will gladly disrupt other people's
> remembrance, even something as recent as Hillsborough. But City will take
> all the flak and have their reputation damaged, not least
> internationally - and we know what that means in these times. Very
> clever. Very wrong.
>
> +mrcakey

Quelle surprise Mr C. United have exploited the Munich disaster for their
own ends for years, sometimes to evoke sympathy and sometimes for
"political"
gain. Yet, like all good religious zealots, anyone who detracts from the
"populist" viewpoint is worthy of being burnt at the stake.

It was 50 years ago FFS. The majority of United fans can't remember any
further back than 1992 so why is this still relevant?

In 46 years time, will City have a minute's silence to commemorate the death
of Marc Vivian Foe? I suspect not.
>

scoopex · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 7519

mrcakey wrote:
> I posted this to the 606 board. (Reckon I'm on the edge of giving up on
> this NG - wrote to UK usenet coordinator about starting a moderated version
> and got no reply.)
>
> ______________
>
> I'm always embarrassed by my fellow City fans' attitude to this. People trot
> out that Frank Swift (a City player) was also killed in the crash as if that
> alone should engender respect, but that shouldn't enter into the thinking -
> this was a human tragedy.
>
> Another benefit of having a minute's clap rather than a minute's silence is
> that it gives those decent City fans like myself the opportunity to pay
> their respects. No one can hear your silence if there are 2,000 idiots
> making aeroplane noises around you - but they can see you clapping.
>
> ______________
>
> That was before United made their choice. Now I'm more angry than anything.
>
> They know exactly what's going to happen.
>
> They could have rearranged the fixture and held the silence on a different
> day.
>
> They could have opted for the admittedly second rate option of having a
> minute's clap.
>
> But no. They're going to attempt to instigate a silence on the same day
> they're playing City. A team whose fans use the word "Munich" with such
> casual disregard for its implied meaning. Which element of fans has
> previously made aeroplane signs in every previous derby match for the past
> God knows how many years.
>
> What are the chances of getting through it? Nil. United know that. What
> are the consequences? United sainted, City damned. It's politics.
> Pathetic politics. As others have pointed out, this is not a City disease -
> United have an element that will gladly disrupt other people's remembrance,
> even something as recent as Hillsborough. But City will take all the flak
> and have their reputation damaged, not least internationally - and we know
> what that means in these times. Very clever. Very wrong.
>
> +mrcakey
>
>

personally i find the whole thing funny as hell TBH.

lol. Very Happy

Darth Simian · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 2055

"mrcakey" wrote in message $83o$1@aioe.org...

A football match is no place for "services" of remembrance. This whole
minutes silence/clapping and armband wearing at the drop of a hat seems to
have crept in since Princess Diana died. The whole thing makes me sick.
It's just PR bullshit. Those in genuine grief should attend their local
church, although most who will be in the stadium were not even born in 1958

madMental · Joined: 09 Jan 2008 Posts: 49

Applause is in order if someone has recently died but as utd want an act
of remembrance silence is called for.
I don't see the conspiracy in utd insisting on a silence, if anything
the City supporters group have brought attention on themselves by asking
for applause as a solution to our problem, that of some fcuking numbnuts
disrespecting the tradgedy. Surely City can get together with the 3000
who'll be there (and £50 poorer for the privilege too) and get the
message across that for that for just one minute they should be silent.
They're all being issued with a scarf, they can hold them up in unison.
No one can stop them thinking that it's all a bit mawkishly sentimental
whilst they do it, we just don't want City getting a bad name.
--
I've got a bike. You can ride it if you like.
It's got a basket, a bell that rings and
Things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could, but I borrowed it.

Marrick · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 271

"madMental" wrote in message $srj$1@news.datemas.de...
> Applause is in order if someone has recently died but as utd want an act
> of remembrance silence is called for.
> I don't see the conspiracy in utd insisting on a silence, if anything the
> City supporters group have brought attention on themselves by asking for
> applause as a solution to our problem, that of some fcuking numbnuts
> disrespecting the tradgedy. Surely City can get together with the 3000
> who'll be there (and £50 poorer for the privilege too) and get the message
> across that for that for just one minute they should be silent. They're
> all being issued with a scarf, they can hold them up in unison. No one can
> stop them thinking that it's all a bit mawkishly sentimental whilst they
> do it, we just don't want City getting a bad name.

Let's hope that's what happens. But we've all been at matches with a
one-minute silence. Even as few as 7 or 8 blue nutters could completely ruin
it and give the red nutters an excuse to get nasty. I agree with e+, its a
bad idea.

Chas · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 189

"mrcakey" wrote
> But City will take all the flak and have their reputation damaged, not
> least internationally - and we know what that means in these times. Very
> clever. Very wrong.

I don't feel as pessimistic as you. Yes, a handful of morons will probably
tarnish the good name of all City supporters. But hopefully people will know
that that is the extent of it, just the inevitable few nutters and not the
vast, vast majority of City fans. All clubs have some nutters, it's almost
inevitable, everyone knows that. Interestingly, in our case it seems that
our nutters are the ones with lots of loyalty points (judging from where the
bad taste chants come from during away matches). So by sticking with the
loyalty point system for this game, the club have almost guaranteed
problems.

The club has also done little of any substance to address the problem. For
example, they could have sold 100 fewer tickets and distributed 100 very
visible City stewards throughout the crowd, with the promise that anyone who
did not respect the occasion would have their membership revoked.

GrandAdge · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

>snipped<

>>Different times. Much lamented in many ways.
>>
>>City actually had a double page spread about the anniversary yesterday.
>>Didn't read it (didn't get a programme) but it's good that at least some
>>in
>>the club have respect.
>>
>>+mrcakey
>>
> I'd say "most" in the club have respect.
>
>
> RED DEVIL
>

I'm certain the club have the utmost respect in the matter but I've always
been disappointed in that Manchester City didn't align themselves more to
the tragedy in Munich, it was a tragedy for Manchester football. United had
a team destroyed, footballers of various ages, prospects and abilities but a
great team in the making. City lost a legendary figure too (sorry for
trotting this one out mrcakey), Frank Swift was a truly great player for
Manchester City. God knows we have had very few of these in recent times.
When I was a kid I constantly heard about "Big Swifty" and Bert Trautmann.
These were the 2 names that stood head and shoulders above all others that
had played for the club. Since the great Colin Bell hung up his boots there
has been no other player we can actually call a "legend". Nowadays we speak
in hushed tones about Foe and revere his memory and untimely (and tragic)
death. Whilst not wishing to disrespect him in any way, he had worn the City
shirt for less than 12 months, Frank Swift played for about 16/17 years for
City and was an integral part of our history. The club never really paid any
great tribute to his memory. I'm sure in the aftermath they did and maybe
due to the pain and heartbreak that followed, people wanted to move on. Many
of the survivors felt "forgotten" for a long time afterwards. Too many years
have passed now but I thought City should've accepted that the Munich
tragedy was a small part of our history too. Not to silence the idiot
section, but to honour a great player. I've given up apologising for the
cretins who celebrate the event and I hope United supporters will see this
day has a day to pay their respects to the memory of their lost heroes and
simply disregard the attempts by idiots to disrupt their tribute to them. If
not, the idiots will be on both sides and the idiots will have won.

--
Regards
GrandAdge

(take "the mickey" out)

Jimbo · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 355

Couldn't agree more.

Jimbo

"GrandAdge" wrote in message $zg.475@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
> >snipped<
>
>>>Different times. Much lamented in many ways.
>>>
>>>City actually had a double page spread about the anniversary yesterday.
>>>Didn't read it (didn't get a programme) but it's good that at least some
>>>in
>>>the club have respect.
>>>
>>>+mrcakey
>>>
>> I'd say "most" in the club have respect.
>>
>>
>> RED DEVIL
>>
>
> I'm certain the club have the utmost respect in the matter but I've always
> been disappointed in that Manchester City didn't align themselves more to
> the tragedy in Munich, it was a tragedy for Manchester football. United
> had a team destroyed, footballers of various ages, prospects and abilities
> but a great team in the making. City lost a legendary figure too (sorry
> for trotting this one out mrcakey), Frank Swift was a truly great player
> for Manchester City. God knows we have had very few of these in recent
> times. When I was a kid I constantly heard about "Big Swifty" and Bert
> Trautmann. These were the 2 names that stood head and shoulders above all
> others that had played for the club. Since the great Colin Bell hung up
> his boots there has been no other player we can actually call a "legend".
> Nowadays we speak in hushed tones about Foe and revere his memory and
> untimely (and tragic) death. Whilst not wishing to disrespect him in any
> way, he had worn the City shirt for less than 12 months, Frank Swift
> played for about 16/17 years for City and was an integral part of our
> history. The club never really paid any great tribute to his memory. I'm
> sure in the aftermath they did and maybe due to the pain and heartbreak
> that followed, people wanted to move on. Many of the survivors felt
> "forgotten" for a long time afterwards. Too many years have passed now but
> I thought City should've accepted that the Munich tragedy was a small part
> of our history too. Not to silence the idiot section, but to honour a
> great player. I've given up apologising for the cretins who celebrate the
> event and I hope United supporters will see this day has a day to pay
> their respects to the memory of their lost heroes and simply disregard the
> attempts by idiots to disrupt their tribute to them. If not, the idiots
> will be on both sides and the idiots will have won.
>
>
> --
> Regards
> GrandAdge
>
> (take "the mickey" out)
>
>
>
>

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