Some captain that was.

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

Nothing is more certain to get the 'gut reaction' group out
than any suggestion of criticism about anything 'Arsenal'
( or Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea or Spurs in their groups) but
this past week does raise some questions.

Weenier is good manager, but not far behind Raft in his
penchant for saying ridiculous, and often contradictory,
things. His comments about a life ban were stupid and a
direct accusation that the damage was intended, something few
of the Arsenal fans would probably agree with. His charge was
all the more biased when we know that he gives regular games
to a player who, but for the grace of god, could have
inflicted similar damage many times .....a player with a worse
reputation than yesterdays culprit, and one most Gunners fans
would like to see the back of.

He later withdrew his comment about Taylor, with very few
words, but obviously said nothing about his other comment
which we have heard before many times in past seasons, that
his side are singled out for strong arm tactics. This is
nonsense. This is Prem football, a contact sport, not
basketball, and plenty of clubs suffer greater injuries and
you don't even have to look outside London to find some of them.

But, what the hell! We are used to his comments now, and they
are soon forgotten. But more significant was the Gallas
reaction, which, according to Wenger, was over the defensive
error.

Gallas is a sound player, but, as they soon discovered at
Chelsea, not the greatest of team or club men off the field.
A bit quirky, and not the greatest mixer, as I suggested in
the past. His reaction yesterday was pathetic for any player,
but immature for a captain who has a responsibility for
keeping the moral of the team up. How they needed that
yesterday after a week of far too easy capitulation to close
rivals, an horrific injury to a key team mate, and an
important two points dropped to a dubious penalty, plus a poor
result in Europe.

But Gallas sits sulking on the pitch as, maybe significantly,
the rest of his side ignore him.

I cannot imagine Tony Adams doing this, or any of the other
club captains from Joe Mercer onwards. With them the revival
would have started at 4.55 pm. Meanwhile, Man U slap in 5 and
go even more confidently on their way.

I though that the Gunners had a great chance of the title this
year, but I am starting to have doubts. It is certainly going
to take a more positive attitude from both manager and captain
and it needs to be soon. Wenger is certainly up to it,
Gallas?..........I wonder if these youngsters need someone
more adult and mature?

Cue the usual apologists.

LC

Archived from group: alt>sports>soccer>arsenal

cupra · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 1777

lescor wrote:

> Cue the usual apologists.

You certainly know how to turn a post that you've put a lot of thought and
effort into, into a troll with one line too far....

cupra · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 1777

lescor wrote:

> Weenier is good manager,

Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?

batezee · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 527

"lescor" wrote in message @btinternet.com...
> snipped for brevity<

.. Wenger is certainly up to it,
> Gallas?..........I wonder if these youngsters need someone more adult and
> mature?
>
>
> Cue the usual apologists.
>
> LC
>

Once more succinct and to the point Les,have to agree with you ,with Gallas
continuing as Captain our chances of honours are diminished,but Aw has a
habit of doing this,take TH14 for example! whenever was he a leader on the
pitch? never I would say,and hiuggingWalcott before the game looks nice but
ius not leadership.Surely KOLO should have been the obvious choice,he lives
and breathes Arsenal and is charismatic and vocal out there,I would have
said Fab but do not want him distracted from doing what he does best and
that is controlling the game,plus he is still a bit young for such
responsiblities.But for rthe momnet we have to have faith in AW and hope he
can get us back on track.
--
David

"That Damn Butterfly"

Ian · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 148

On 24 Feb, 13:12, " cupra" wrote:
> lescor wrote:
>
>
>
> > Weenier is good manager,
>
> Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?

The guy has a B like obsession with Arsenal.

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

cupra wrote:
> lescor wrote:
>
>
>>Cue the usual apologists.
>
>
> You certainly know how to turn a post that you've put a lot of thought and
> effort into, into a troll with one line too far....
>
>

You are probably correct, ( if I knew what a troll was?) but I
still find it hard to understand that automatic reaction
which kicks in from many as soon as a question is raised about
any clubs boss , player or director. It seems that support is
impossible unless it is unquestioning. They are all gods?

It is the reason for those long "nah nah...my dad could beat
your dad" threads. I don't expect everyone to agree with my
opinion, but wouldn't it be refreshing if a defence of Gallas
came from a Man U fan instead of the more predictable
irritation that anyone could question "our captain" or "our
manager" ?

And they come with the knowledge that if these same comments
were made about about a rival club their opinions would be
reversed. LOL.....its only a game, and maybe I expect too much.

LC

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

supra wrote:
> lescor wrote:
>
>
>>Weenier is good manager,
>
>
> Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?
>
>

That is not deliberate. and was repeated and noticed and
corrected later in the post before sending. Silly names are
not my style.

LC

Luther Root · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 116

On Feb 25, 6:23 am, Ian wrote:
> On 24 Feb, 13:12, " cupra" wrote:
>
> > lescor wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Weenier is good manager,
>
> > Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?
>
> The guy has a B like obsession with Arsenal.

I think there's a fundamental distinction; Bill actually comes across
as a person of sound mental constitution (and from what you've said,
is actually a fairly normal human being in real life). Leclue the
Second comes across as a k00k.

~LR

~LR

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

Luther Root wrote:
> On Feb 25, 6:23 am, Ian wrote:
>
>>On 24 Feb, 13:12, " cupra" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>lescor wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>Weenier is good manager,
>>>
>>>Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?
>>
>>The guy has a B like obsession with Arsenal.
>
>
> I think there's a fundamental distinction; Bill actually comes across
> as a person of sound mental constitution (and from what you've said,
> is actually a fairly normal human being in real life). Leclue the
> Second comes across as a k00k.

Maybe, but the best way to prove that would be to respond with
less childish comments. If you have a sensible point of view
of course.

LC

Baldoni · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 454

lescor presented the following explanation :
>

> But, what the hell! We are used to his comments now, and they are soon
> forgotten. But more significant was the Gallas reaction, which, according to
> Wenger, was over the defensive error.

>
> But Gallas sits sulking on the pitch as, maybe significantly, the rest of his
> side ignore him.
>
> I cannot imagine Tony Adams doing this, or any of the other club captains
> from Joe Mercer onwards. With them the revival would have started at 4.55
> pm. Meanwhile, Man U slap in 5 and go even more confidently on their way.
>
Did you see the way that Terry acted when he went up to collect his
losers medal ? I just watched it now and the least he could have done
as the skipper is shook hands properly.

I hope he don't lose his temper and start pissing in ashtrays again.
He is no Bobby Moore that much is certain.

--
Count Baldoni
"If [Chelsea] want to buy [Ashley Cole] you should be capable of
finding the phone number of Arsenal Football Club."

Arsene Wenger January 2005

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

Baldoni wrote:
> lescor presented the following explanation :
>
>>
>
>> But, what the hell! We are used to his comments now, and they are
>> soon forgotten. But more significant was the Gallas reaction, which,
>> according to Wenger, was over the defensive error.
>
>
>>
>> But Gallas sits sulking on the pitch as, maybe significantly, the rest
>> of his side ignore him.
>>
>> I cannot imagine Tony Adams doing this, or any of the other club
>> captains from Joe Mercer onwards. With them the revival would have
>> started at 4.55 pm. Meanwhile, Man U slap in 5 and go even more
>> confidently on their way.
>>
> Did you see the way that Terry acted when he went up to collect his
> losers medal ? I just watched it now and the least he could have done
> as the skipper is shook hands properly.
>
> I hope he don't lose his temper and start pissing in ashtrays again. He
> is no Bobby Moore that much is certain.
>

No I didn't, and it might have been very churlish, although I
can't remember seeing many happy faces getting a losers medal
over the years. But, so what? Football has all sorts of
players and maybe the captain needs to be a man who feels poor
results most? But that has nothing to do with the Gallas
nonsense.

Given his past record - which was predictably discounted by
some Gunner fans when I mentioned it in the past - he was a
very poor choice, particularly when the club had a very good
alternative.

Too late to change now, unless AW wants to be forced to find a
new defender of Gallas class. Todays media are pretty scathing
and ask the same questions about his fitness to lead this
young side. Non more outspoken than that very fine paper 'The
Sun'......lol....OK, this makes it easy to discount, but it is
the first time I have seen in print the same opinions I heard
about him from someone close to The Bridge long before he left
and came here. Make of it what you would prefer to accept.

LC
................................
The Sun
Monday, February 25, 2008

IT'S time for the curtain to come down on the William Gallas
Show.
The struggling French farce -- known in the trade as 'The Big I
Am' -- has run its course.
The unpredictable and self-indulgent star should be returned
to the chorus line and the captain's armband handed to Cesc
Fabregas.
The Arsenal defender's reaction to the last-second blunder by
Gael Clichy that cost the Gunners victory at Birmingham --
kicking lumps out of an advertising hoarding and staging a
sit-down strike in the Blues' half -- was a disgrace.

Arsenal chairman Peter Hill-Wood has strong views on this sort
of behaviour, though Arsene Wenger, typically, will argue
vehemently on the player's behalf.

Sulking
Few can remember a display of such staggering
unprofessionalism by a senior player. I doubt the flouncing
Frenchman would have reacted that way had Tony Adams or Martin
Keown been waiting for him to make his belated return to the
dressing room.

Now it remains to be seen whether the prima donna's pouting
fit of pique has fatally undermined a changing room already
destabilised by recent results and the Emmanuel
Adebayor-Nicklas Bendtner fallout.
There were a few Arsenal fans on Saturday night who went as
far as to say it could well have cost them the title already.

Yes, both Gallas and Wenger will plead mitigating
circumstances after the horrendous injury suffered by striker
Eduardo. And everyone has the utmost sympathy for the player
and his colleagues at Arsenal.

But the Croatian's broken leg did not excuse Wenger's
immediate reaction that Martin Taylor be banned for life -- nor
Gallas' schoolboy sulking.
Wenger, thankfully, finally saw sense and retracted his
statement -- no doubt having been reminded that his own side do
not exactly have the best record when it comes to suspect
tackles.
Sure, Taylor's challenge was both late and crude but the
player's previous history does not suggest anything resembling
violence or malevolence.

Sadly, it's one of those things that occasionally happens in
sport.
Wenger, having had time to cool down, obviously came to the
same conclusion. Others, knowing his selective blindness, have
voiced their surprise that he saw it in the first place.

Gallas, though, is a different matter.
I cannot for the life of me understand why he was appointed
skipper in the first place. Arriving from Chelsea with a
reputation as a moody drama queen, one of his last acts as he
pushed for a transfer was, according to the club, to threaten
to score an own goal if he was selected to play on the opening
day of the season.

At the time, we thought it was predictable Chelsea spin. Along
with their assertion that Gallas had initially refused to play
in the FA Cup semi-final against Liverpool the previous season
as he angled for a better contract.

Now it's all falling into place.

When the Frenchman finally signed for Arsenal, he confirmed
his enormous arrogance by insisting on inheriting Dennis
Bergkamp's No 10 shirt. Since then, more and more stories have
emerged of the high opinion Gallas has of himself.

It reached a peak just before the 4-0 FA Cup rout at Old
Trafford when Gallas, hysterically, accused Manchester United
themselves of being arrogant.

He hardly covered himself in glory that day, either. Given the
runaround by Wayne Rooney, he then lost it at the end, kicking
Nani three times and yet somehow escaping a ban.

That is what he should have remembered on Saturday before
spitting his dummy and pointing the finger at Clich

As David Platt said on TV: "His team-mates would have been
totally entitled to dig him out in the dressing room
afterwards and say 'Oh yeah, and who are you to act like that?'."
Gallas has now become a sitting duck, a red card waiting to
happen.

It will be bad enough going back to Old Trafford, let alone
Stamford Bridge. Can you imagine the wind-up waiting for him
there from his former Chelsea team-mates?

All in all, it was a disastrous afternoon for Arsenal who
should have wrapped it up at 3-1 only for Adebayor to go for
goal himself rather than passing inside to his great mate
Bendtner.
United then walloped Newcastle to close the gap at the top to
three points.
As for Gallas, here is one WG with no grace at

..................................................

Google Beta User · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 313

On Feb 24, 2:23 pm, Ian wrote:

> > Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?
>
> The guy has a B like obsession with Arsenal.

No, he's an unaligned fan, but he does tend to be especially critical
of Arsenal and LFC, we've been on the receiving end of a few of his
scoldings as well.

For sure he's not a troll though, and he actually talks football and
argues his case (wether you agree with it or not).

Luther Root · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 116

On Feb 26, 1:23 am, Google Beta User wrote:
> On Feb 24, 2:23 pm, Ian wrote:
>
> > > Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?
>
> > The guy has a B like obsession with Arsenal.
>
> No, he's an unaligned fan, but he does tend to be especially critical
> of Arsenal and LFC, we've been on the receiving end of a few of his
> scoldings as well.

I suspect he supports Sp*rs -- when we beat them in the league last
time, he was the first person to post here, telling us how rubbish &
lucky Arsenal was. Because it happened in res gestae, I feel it's
reasonably to draw an inference from it.

> For sure he's not a troll though, and he actually talks football and
> argues his case (wether you agree with it or not).

His gimmick is to blend (what he believes is) "deep analytical
thought" with tabloid-style sensationalism, and never willing to
accept anybody else's viewpoint but rather wants you to submit to his.
The consequence is he comes across as being a k00k.

~LR

Baldoni · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 454

lescor used his keyboard to write :
> Baldoni wrote:
>> lescor presented the following explanation :
>>
>>>
>>
>>> But, what the hell! We are used to his comments now, and they are soon
>>> forgotten. But more significant was the Gallas reaction, which, according
>>> to Wenger, was over the defensive error.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> But Gallas sits sulking on the pitch as, maybe significantly, the rest of
>>> his side ignore him.
>>>
>>> I cannot imagine Tony Adams doing this, or any of the other club captains
>>> from Joe Mercer onwards. With them the revival would have started at 4.55
>>> pm. Meanwhile, Man U slap in 5 and go even more confidently on their
>>> way.
>>>
>> Did you see the way that Terry acted when he went up to collect his losers
>> medal ? I just watched it now and the least he could have done as the
>> skipper is shook hands properly.
>>
>> I hope he don't lose his temper and start pissing in ashtrays again. He is
>> no Bobby Moore that much is certain.
>>
>
> No I didn't, and it might have been very churlish, although I can't remember
> seeing many happy faces getting a losers medal over the years. But, so what?
> Football has all sorts of players and maybe the captain needs to be a man who
> feels poor results most? But that has nothing to do with the Gallas
> nonsense.
>
> Given his past record - which was predictably discounted by some Gunner fans
> when I mentioned it in the past - he was a very poor choice, particularly
> when the club had a very good alternative.
>

> team-mates?
>
> All in all, it was a disastrous afternoon for Arsenal who should have wrapped
> it up at 3-1 only for Adebayor to go for goal himself rather than passing
> inside to his great mate Bendtner.
> United then walloped Newcastle to close the gap at the top to three points.
> As for Gallas, here is one WG with no grace at
>
> ..................................................

Going back years now I remember my old man would not allow The Sun to
be brought through the front door, and I follow that tradition. I have
to be honest my choice for skipper would have been Toure thus leaving
Cesc free of added pressure. Both seem to have Arsenal running through
their blood at the moment.

It came across to me and I might be wrong that Wenger had trouble with
big stars, for example Henry and Gallas in that he gave the captains
armband to them to keep them happy. It is widely regarded that
although our best ever player he was in fact one of our worst captains.

When Wenger first came to the club he had to win over Adams and the
back 4 especially when looking at defensive responsibilities. They
insisted that either Vieira or Petit stayed back when Arsenal launched
an attack.

I thought what Gallas did was stupid and I expect most people did.
They are proffesionals at the end of the day and what he did was very
unproffesional. As was IMHO Terry not being able to shake hands or
indeed Wenger, Mourinho and Ferguson not being able to shake hands
after a match.

--
Count Baldoni
"If [Chelsea] want to buy [Ashley Cole] you should be capable of
finding the phone number of Arsenal Football Club."

Arsene Wenger January 2005

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

Luther Root wrote:
> On Feb 26, 1:23 am, Google Beta User wrote:
>
>>On Feb 24, 2:23 pm, Ian wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Do you think that's going to raise the debate as well?
>>>
>>>The guy has a B like obsession with Arsenal.
>>
>>No, he's an unaligned fan, but he does tend to be especially critical
>>of Arsenal and LFC, we've been on the receiving end of a few of his
>>scoldings as well.
>
>
> I suspect he supports Sp*rs -- when we beat them in the league last
> time, he was the first person to post here, telling us how rubbish &
> lucky Arsenal was. Because it happened in res gestae, I feel it's
> reasonably to draw an inference from it.
>
>
>>For sure he's not a troll though, and he actually talks football and
>>argues his case (wether you agree with it or not).
>
>
> His gimmick is to blend (what he believes is) "deep analytical
> thought" with tabloid-style sensationalism, and never willing to
> accept anybody else's viewpoint but rather wants you to submit to his.
> The consequence is he comes across as being a k00k.
>
> ~LR

If only that were true. I will dispute those gut reaction
replies which stem from " how could anyone at my club do
anything questionable", but welcome any constructive response.
The fact is, that is exactly what I try to encourage.

My comments in the LFC group over the past years have mostly
been about the weakness of the manager who was being treated
like a god and tactical genius after the CL final win. My
almost lone voice suggested that he had a lot still to prove.
He still has. Not a popular view at the time, but maybe more
common now?

I got a load of flack here some time ago by suggesting that Mr
Dein, a very popular director at the time, might have personal
ambitions which were not in the best interest of Arsenal FC or
its fans? Some might now agree?
Does this make me some sort of wise guru.....lol, I wish it
were true. It is just the thoughts of a football lover with
opinions not blinkered by silly club loyalty. So, in the MU
group I am accused of being a Pool or Arsenal or Chelsea fan.
It's the same in those other groups, apart from Chelsea were I
seldom post because there is nobody home. It's a dead zone.

I try to be objective because I invest quite big sums betting
on Prem games, with some success, and I certainly would have
been a Spurs fan for a few hours on Sunday if I had seen the
side Grant was going to put out. But the fact that any
comment, which is the slightest bit critical, is seen by so
many as just HAVING to have come from a rival supporter says
it all. A bit sad eh?

For the record, nobody admires AW as a manager more than me,
or the football his sides are capable of playing. I also
admire the astute Fergie. and thought Jose WAS a bit special.
But that does not make them gods. We also know how stupid they
can be and it hurts nobody to say so.

I thought Arsenal had a great chance of the title with a bit
of luck. Recent events bring doubts. Players in conflict on
the pitch. A captain behaving like a spoilt kid. Football
points worth discussion in a football group (NOT an Arsenal
fan group) maybe, or is that inviting disloyalty?

You are probably correct. Only a kook could suggest such a thing.

LC

'Act Like Our Captain' According to some Back Page headlines, his team mates have told Gallas to 'Act Like Our Captain'.

taylor for captain? i'd be shocked if he isnt vs bolton. if it's not him, it'll be given. but for me, tayls is the man, he breathes nufc, just like keegan does. and ffs, KK, get his contract sorted ASAP.

Captain Snoop of Engurlandia? Fabio Capello is planning to make Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand his new captain. Hmmm, its from the Daily Star. I will believe it when I see it. I think he is more likely to piss snow than get the armband. But then again... -- Where there is

Steven Gerrard - New England captain That is all. lol. :)

FA: eBay - World Cup Presented By Korean Captain FIFA -- First Name Mister, Middle Name Period, Last Name T.