Avram Grant - The verdict so far?

JAB · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 1733

I along what quite a few people was worried to say the last when his was
appointed with the fear his was just a yes man and more control on the
field would go to RA but so far I've been impressed that he's managed to
keep the team in contention for the title considered he's only just
joined and we've had some bad injuries to key players. Whether we can
keep this up with the African nations on is another question though.

So far his style of play doesn't seem to be that much different to JM's
just with a bit more of an attacking flair. To be expected really
considered how long his been there so I wouldn't mark him down for that
- oh and generally it works rather well so let's not change to many
things at one time. The things that worries me is that I've yet to see
him demonstrate what I always considered JMs biggest strength - the
ability to change games using subs and positional changes. I think there
was a bit of that against Fulham where the withdrawal of Sidwell for
Mikel which allowed Essien to roam forward much more in his favoured
position but I still have a question mark over this side of his game.
The other worry was being beaten by both Man. U and Arsenal where I
never felt he understood have to win these games. One area I think may
be a good improvement is the signing of players. We've signed some good
players but we've signed a lot of bad ones as well. Obviously it will
take a bit of time for this one to pan out but Anelka seems a good first
buy even if it was at an inflated price. This in the area that I really
think we've being lacking in the last few seasons and I would go as far
to say we've had some real donkeys turn up.

So overall he's winning me over (as if he really cares what I think!)
but the real test will be next season when he can really says it's his team.

So what does everyone else think of it so far ....?

Archived from group: alt>sports>soccer>chelseafc

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

JAB wrote:
> I along what quite a few people was worried to say the last when his was
> appointed with the fear his was just a yes man and more control on the
> field would go to RA but so far I've been impressed that he's managed to
> keep the team in contention for the title considered he's only just
> joined and we've had some bad injuries to key players. Whether we can
> keep this up with the African nations on is another question though.
>
> So far his style of play doesn't seem to be that much different to JM's
> just with a bit more of an attacking flair. To be expected really
> considered how long his been there so I wouldn't mark him down for that
> - oh and generally it works rather well so let's not change to many
> things at one time. The things that worries me is that I've yet to see
> him demonstrate what I always considered JMs biggest strength - the
> ability to change games using subs and positional changes. I think there
> was a bit of that against Fulham where the withdrawal of Sidwell for
> Mikel which allowed Essien to roam forward much more in his favoured
> position but I still have a question mark over this side of his game.
> The other worry was being beaten by both Man. U and Arsenal where I
> never felt he understood have to win these games. One area I think may
> be a good improvement is the signing of players. We've signed some good
> players but we've signed a lot of bad ones as well. Obviously it will
> take a bit of time for this one to pan out but Anelka seems a good first
> buy even if it was at an inflated price. This in the area that I really
> think we've being lacking in the last few seasons and I would go as far
> to say we've had some real donkeys turn up.
>
> So overall he's winning me over (as if he really cares what I think!)
> but the real test will be next season when he can really says it's his
> team.
>
> So what does everyone else think of it so far ....?

I cannot see how Chelsea fans can fault him? It's true that
he is probably enjoying the solid structure that Jose
established ( Terry said today that little had changed in
training ) but, even so, he has done wonders with a squad
which has had so many of its core players missing.

Seems that one of Jose's greatest gifts to the club is intact,
as the team spirit, which was second to none, is still
obvious, which is no small feat considering the sudden
departure of the special one and all the expectations his
managership encouraged.

There seems little sign of the dip in results I expected, and
if they can maintain this over the next few weeks, until back
to full strength, the two leaders might get a shock. Both have
to go to your place for 6 pointers.

SWP is benefiting from his new freedom and, judging from what
I have seen, Ballack is now starting to show some of his
class, and Anelka should shine in this set up.

It's all looking pretty good. Add to this Grants vibrant
personality and sense of humour...........lol, OK I go too
far. In fact he makes Rafa Benitez look like Ken Dodd, but
you can't have everything.

LC

JAB · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 1733

lescor wrote:
> It's all looking pretty good. Add to this Grants vibrant personality and
> sense of humour...........lol, OK I go too far. In fact he makes Rafa
> Benitez look like Ken Dodd, but you can't have everything.
>
>

In a strange way I miss his little wind ups and tantrums ...

b · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 682

"JAB" wrote in message$ov2.13695@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...

> Well we're are still in the running for the everything so I can't really
> complain. Oh and on the Jewish aspect have you heard any at the ground
> or is this just paper talk? I think it was the Schalke game that there
> was supposed to be some chanting but I'm buggered if I could hear
> anything from where I was sitting.
>
heard it at grounds and on a few websites.
>

Steev · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 171

"JAB" wrote in message $a61.10475@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>I along what quite a few people was worried to say the last when his was
>appointed with the fear his was just a yes man and more control on the
>field would go to RA but so far I've been impressed that he's managed to
>keep the team in contention for the title considered he's only just joined
>and we've had some bad injuries to key players. Whether we can keep this up
>with the African nations on is another question though.

Well we've made a good start,as a team they all seem well up for the
challenge...

> So far his style of play doesn't seem to be that much different to JM's
> just with a bit more of an attacking flair. To be expected really
> considered how long his been there so I wouldn't mark him down for that -
> oh and generally it works rather well so let's not change to many things
> at one time. The things that worries me is that I've yet to see him
> demonstrate what I always considered JMs biggest strength - the ability to
> change games using subs and positional changes. I think there was a bit of
> that against Fulham where the withdrawal of Sidwell for Mikel which
> allowed Essien to roam forward much more in his favoured position but I
> still have a question mark over this side of his game. The other worry was
> being beaten by both Man. U and Arsenal where I never felt he understood
> have to win these games.

Too be fair,The Man utd game was always gonna be difficult for him to start
his managerial stint at the club,I never saw the Arsenal game so can't
really comment.Not many managers have the knack to get the subs right,JM was
certainly very bold when it came to it,and often he got it right..

One area I think may
> be a good improvement is the signing of players. We've signed some good
> players but we've signed a lot of bad ones as well. Obviously it will take
> a bit of time for this one to pan out but Anelka seems a good first buy
> even if it was at an inflated price. This in the area that I really think
> we've being lacking in the last few seasons and I would go as far to say
> we've had some real donkeys turn up.

The donkey list is endless,Anelka will be a great signing I'm sure,he's
quality and I think this will be his last chance to shine on the football
stage,so I reckon he'll be up for it..
>
> So overall he's winning me over (as if he really cares what I think!) but
> the real test will be next season when he can really says it's his team.
>
> So what does everyone else think of it so far ....?

I think you covered it quite well.
Smile

Steve

JAB · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 1733

Steev wrote:
> "JAB" wrote in message
> $a61.10475@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>> I along what quite a few people was worried to say the last when his was
>> appointed with the fear his was just a yes man and more control on the
>> field would go to RA but so far I've been impressed that he's managed to
>> keep the team in contention for the title considered he's only just joined
>> and we've had some bad injuries to key players. Whether we can keep this up
>> with the African nations on is another question though.
>
> Well we've made a good start,as a team they all seem well up for the
> challenge...
>
>
>> So far his style of play doesn't seem to be that much different to JM's
>> just with a bit more of an attacking flair. To be expected really
>> considered how long his been there so I wouldn't mark him down for that -
>> oh and generally it works rather well so let's not change to many things
>> at one time. The things that worries me is that I've yet to see him
>> demonstrate what I always considered JMs biggest strength - the ability to
>> change games using subs and positional changes. I think there was a bit of
>> that against Fulham where the withdrawal of Sidwell for Mikel which
>> allowed Essien to roam forward much more in his favoured position but I
>> still have a question mark over this side of his game. The other worry was
>> being beaten by both Man. U and Arsenal where I never felt he understood
>> have to win these games.
>
> Too be fair,The Man utd game was always gonna be difficult for him to start
> his managerial stint at the club,I never saw the Arsenal game so can't
> really comment.Not many managers have the knack to get the subs right,JM was
> certainly very bold when it came to it,and often he got it right..
>
> One area I think may
>> be a good improvement is the signing of players. We've signed some good
>> players but we've signed a lot of bad ones as well. Obviously it will take
>> a bit of time for this one to pan out but Anelka seems a good first buy
>> even if it was at an inflated price. This in the area that I really think
>> we've being lacking in the last few seasons and I would go as far to say
>> we've had some real donkeys turn up.
>
> The donkey list is endless,Anelka will be a great signing I'm sure,he's
> quality and I think this will be his last chance to shine on the football
> stage,so I reckon he'll be up for it..
>> So overall he's winning me over (as if he really cares what I think!) but
>> the real test will be next season when he can really says it's his team.
>>
>> So what does everyone else think of it so far ....?
>
> I think you covered it quite well.
> Smile

> Steve
>

When we win the quadruple then I may think he's not so bad ... Smile

Graf Finklestein · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 170

On 13 Jan, 10:24, JAB wrote:
> I along what quite a few people was worried to say the last when his was
> appointed with the fear his was just a yes man and more control on the
> field would go to RA but so far I've been impressed that he's managed to
> keep the team in contention for the title considered he's only just
> joined and we've had some bad injuries to key players. Whether we can
> keep this up with the African nations on is another question though.
>
> So far his style of play doesn't seem to be that much different to JM's
> just with a bit more of an attacking flair. To be expected really
> considered how long his been there so I wouldn't mark him down for that
> - oh and generally it works rather well so let's not change to many
> things at one time. The things that worries me is that I've yet to see
> him demonstrate what I always considered JMs biggest strength - the
> ability to change games using subs and positional changes. I think there
> was a bit of that against Fulham where the withdrawal of Sidwell for
> Mikel which allowed Essien to roam forward much more in his favoured
> position but I still have a question mark over this side of his game.
> The other worry was being beaten by both Man. U and Arsenal where I
> never felt he understood have to win these games. One area I think may
> be a good improvement is the signing of players. We've signed some good
> players but we've signed a lot of bad ones as well. Obviously it will
> take a bit of time for this one to pan out but Anelka seems a good first
> buy even if it was at an inflated price. This in the area that I really
> think we've being lacking in the last few seasons and I would go as far
> to say we've had some real donkeys turn up.
>
> So overall he's winning me over (as if he really cares what I think!)
> but the real test will be next season when he can really says it's his team.
>
> So what does everyone else think of it so far ....?

I think he's done well thus far. As I've said before, when you look
at the points he's racked up considering the incredible number of key
players we've had out, and compare that to the problems we had around
the same time the previous season with far fewer injuries, I think
he's done the job very well. And to be only four points behind the
top two sets us up nicely - they both have to come to our place and we
should expect to win both games, which means we only have two points
to make up on each to overtake them (we're not going to overcome the
goal diff now). The title's definitely there for the taking.

It'll be interesting to see how he reshapes the team in the summer,
both in terms of players and the way we play and the formation used.

lescor · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 635

Graf Finklestein wrote:
> On 13 Jan, 10:24, JAB wrote:
>
>>I along what quite a few people was worried to say the last when his was
>>appointed with the fear his was just a yes man and more control on the
>>field would go to RA but so far I've been impressed that he's managed to
>>keep the team in contention for the title considered he's only just
>>joined and we've had some bad injuries to key players. Whether we can
>>keep this up with the African nations on is another question though.
>>
>>So far his style of play doesn't seem to be that much different to JM's
>>just with a bit more of an attacking flair. To be expected really
>>considered how long his been there so I wouldn't mark him down for that
>>- oh and generally it works rather well so let's not change to many
>>things at one time. The things that worries me is that I've yet to see
>>him demonstrate what I always considered JMs biggest strength - the
>>ability to change games using subs and positional changes. I think there
>>was a bit of that against Fulham where the withdrawal of Sidwell for
>>Mikel which allowed Essien to roam forward much more in his favoured
>>position but I still have a question mark over this side of his game.
>>The other worry was being beaten by both Man. U and Arsenal where I
>>never felt he understood have to win these games. One area I think may
>>be a good improvement is the signing of players. We've signed some good
>>players but we've signed a lot of bad ones as well. Obviously it will
>>take a bit of time for this one to pan out but Anelka seems a good first
>>buy even if it was at an inflated price. This in the area that I really
>>think we've being lacking in the last few seasons and I would go as far
>>to say we've had some real donkeys turn up.
>>
>>So overall he's winning me over (as if he really cares what I think!)
>>but the real test will be next season when he can really says it's his team.
>>
>>So what does everyone else think of it so far ....?
>
>
> I think he's done well thus far. As I've said before, when you look
> at the points he's racked up considering the incredible number of key
> players we've had out, and compare that to the problems we had around
> the same time the previous season with far fewer injuries, I think
> he's done the job very well. And to be only four points behind the
> top two sets us up nicely - they both have to come to our place and we
> should expect to win both games, which means we only have two points
> to make up on each to overtake them (we're not going to overcome the
> goal diff now). The title's definitely there for the taking.

>
> It'll be interesting to see how he reshapes the team in the summer,
> both in terms of players and the way we play and the formation used.

This could be the biggest danger. There is a 'team identity'
which good sides have which is very difficult to describe. It
goes beyond form shown in any single game. It's not just a
matter of style or efficiency or even the talents of
individual players, although these are obviously important.

It is seen in the Arsenal and MU teams. We can see it in its
early stages at other clubs like Man City. This TEAM ethic
thing was a quality that Jose bought to Chelsea very quickly
and it was as important as the good players he bought in
winning those two titles.

Pundits like to talk about how good sides seem able to get
points....sometimes undeserved....when not playing well. It is
often due to this TEAM quality, this extra strength, the
inter dependability that gets them through a game and through
a long season. It is what the top 3 have and what L'Pool so
often lack under Benitez.

It is this value which Grant has inherited from Jose which has
enabled him to overcome the sudden change and the injuries. It
is there to be built upon, but it mustn't be lost with too
many sudden changes in style too soon.

LC

Graf Finklestein · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 170

On 14 Jan, 10:14, lescor wrote:
> Graf Finklestein wrote:
> > On 13 Jan, 10:24, JAB wrote:
>
> >>I along what quite a few people was worried to say the last when his was
> >>appointed with the fear his was just a yes man and more control on the
> >>field would go to RA but so far I've been impressed that he's managed to
> >>keep the team in contention for the title considered he's only just
> >>joined and we've had some bad injuries to key players. Whether we can
> >>keep this up with the African nations on is another question though.
>
> >>So far his style of play doesn't seem to be that much different to JM's
> >>just with a bit more of an attacking flair. To be expected really
> >>considered how long his been there so I wouldn't mark him down for that
> >>- oh and generally it works rather well so let's not change to many
> >>things at one time. The things that worries me is that I've yet to see
> >>him demonstrate what I always considered JMs biggest strength - the
> >>ability to change games using subs and positional changes. I think there
> >>was a bit of that against Fulham where the withdrawal of Sidwell for
> >>Mikel which allowed Essien to roam forward much more in his favoured
> >>position but I still have a question mark over this side of his game.
> >>The other worry was being beaten by both Man. U and Arsenal where I
> >>never felt he understood have to win these games. One area I think may
> >>be a good improvement is the signing of players. We've signed some good
> >>players but we've signed a lot of bad ones as well. Obviously it will
> >>take a bit of time for this one to pan out but Anelka seems a good first
> >>buy even if it was at an inflated price. This in the area that I really
> >>think we've being lacking in the last few seasons and I would go as far
> >>to say we've had some real donkeys turn up.
>
> >>So overall he's winning me over (as if he really cares what I think!)
> >>but the real test will be next season when he can really says it's his team.
>
> >>So what does everyone else think of it so far ....?
>
> > I think he's done well thus far. As I've said before, when you look
> > at the points he's racked up considering the incredible number of key
> > players we've had out, and compare that to the problems we had around
> > the same time the previous season with far fewer injuries, I think
> > he's done the job very well. And to be only four points behind the
> > top two sets us up nicely - they both have to come to our place and we
> > should expect to win both games, which means we only have two points
> > to make up on each to overtake them (we're not going to overcome the
> > goal diff now). The title's definitely there for the taking.
>
> > It'll be interesting to see how he reshapes the team in the summer,
> > both in terms of players and the way we play and the formation used.
>
> This could be the biggest danger. There is a 'team identity'
> which good sides have which is very difficult to describe. It
> goes beyond form shown in any single game. It's not just a
> matter of style or efficiency or even the talents of
> individual players, although these are obviously important.
>
> It is seen in the Arsenal and MU teams. We can see it in its
> early stages at other clubs like Man City. This TEAM ethic
> thing was a quality that Jose bought to Chelsea very quickly
> and it was as important as the good players he bought in
> winning those two titles.
>
> Pundits like to talk about how good sides seem able to get
> points....sometimes undeserved....when not playing well. It is
> often due to this TEAM quality, this extra strength, the
> inter dependability that gets them through a game and through
> a long season. It is what the top 3 have and what L'Pool so
> often lack under Benitez.
>
> It is this value which Grant has inherited from Jose which has
> enabled him to overcome the sudden change and the injuries. It
> is there to be built upon, but it mustn't be lost with too
> many sudden changes in style too soon.
>
> LC

True. When Wenger took charge at Arsenal, while he worked on molding
the attacking side of their play and brought in new players to do so,
he didn't touch the defence until pretty much each of them were too
old to play any longer. He recognized the team's strength and worked
around that, using it as a solid foundation.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether the team unity that has got
them thru the last couple of months is the remnants of the spirit Jose
instilled in the team - or a new, different (maybe even, better ?)
team togetherness forged by Avram and Hank Ten Cakes.